So this was brought up the other day at one of my local courses and I don't have a clue what the ruling is.....

There is a par four with OB on L and Red Stakes on R. A player hit his ball R in Red Stakes. We did not know at the time what hazard it was so he hit a provisional. He placed that ball into the same hazard. When we got down to where his ball entered the hazard, we could not find either. Now can he take his 2 club drop from the red stakes and not count the drop and hit 3, or does the provisional count as another shot. Basically what I am asking is if a ball enters the hazard (Red) and the player loses a provisional, can he go and drop at the first ball hit in the hazard and just completely ignore putting the provisional in play? Thanks.

I think you have it right.

In fact, if you are virtually certain that the first ball went into the red stakes, you are not allowed to play the provisional.

But you HAVE to declare the second shot as a provisional before you hit it. Otherwise, it will be deemed that you are taking stroke and distance for a red hazard penalty (which is perfectly legal to do).

Exact same situation happened to me a few weeks back when I hit a ballooning slice way over into a red staked area. At first, I thought the shot might have cleared the hazard and ended up near an adjacent green. So I declared a provisional and hit that one a little bit closer to my fairway, but still beyond the red stakes. When I got up to where the hazard began, I saw that there was no way that the first ball cleared the hazard, so I played my third shot from a couple of yards behind where that original tee shot entered the hazard. There was a small discussion after I holed out, but when I explained it to my partner, he fully agreed that since he heard me declare the provisional, it wasn't in play once I realized that my first shot had, for certain, gone into the hazard.

I agree with Bryan K, you got it right.

Sorry, but you've got your rules mixed up. If you are virtually certain that the ball went into a hazard, you follow Rule 26 (Water and Lateral Hazards) and follow those procedures. As soon as you declared a provisional, you are now following Rule 27 (Lost Ball). If you cannot find the original ball, the provisional is the one in play, regardless of where you think the first one went. Unless you find the first ball in the hazard, you should have been laying 5 after the drop.

From the rule book:

"If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball."

Actually everybody's right or possibly wrong. Here's why:


The key lies in the statement "we didn't know it was red stakes". Ignorance is bliss here. If you knew it was a hazard and SAW it enter the hazard area but couldn't see the stakes, couldn't tell if it was a water hazard (yellow) or OB (white) and are still certain of where it crossed the line, then you abandon the provisional (without penalty for hitting it and proceed under rule 26 - drop and hit 3. However, here's the kicker....

The provisional was played in case the ball was lost out of bounds or outside a water hazard. If the ball ends up being lost IN the water hazard then you CANNOT use the provisional ball hit because it was hit for a ball lost outside the water hazard. (decision 27.2-1 states that a single provisional cannot be used for both instances.)

In the interest of quick play though, i'd say use it for whatever. but that's the rule.

nearly the exact thing happened to me. I hit a tee shot, watched it go into the weeds. Asked if it was marked and nobody knew so i played a provisional. Same result. second provisional went into the fairway. When i arrived at the spot that it entered the weeds, i saw that there were red stakes buried there. I was certain it was lost in the water hazard due to the line's proximity to where the ball entered, so i took my relief, took the penalty stroke, dropped and played. Good thing too because i wasn't liking hitting 6 into a par 4.

Exactly right Xris, when you are unaware of a hazard or not virtually certain the ball went into a hazard, a provisional is appropriate. Once it becomes virtually certain the ball went into the hazard, the provisional must be abandoned.

Xris worded it the best... except for this sentence - "If you knew it was a hazard and SAW it enter the hazard area but couldn't see the stakes, couldn't tell if it was a water hazard (yellow) or OB (white) and are still certain of where it crossed the line, then you abandon the provisional (without penalty for hitting it and proceed under rule 26 - drop and hit 3."

Wait I get it... If you didn't know what the stakes were while you were on the tee before hitting the provisional, then when you get to where the ball entered, you see that it was red or yellow (which is virtually indisguishable from white in blaring sun at 200+ yards), allowing the drop under rule 26. Ha... me good read do

rmetz676 wrote:

Xris worded it the best... except for this sentence - "If you knew it was a hazard and SAW it enter the hazard area but couldn't see the stakes, couldn't tell if it was a water hazard (yellow) or OB (white) and are still certain of where it crossed the line, then you abandon the provisional (without penalty for hitting it and proceed under rule 26 - drop and hit 3." Wait I get it... If you didn't know what the stakes were while you were on the tee before hitting the provisional, then when you get to where the ball entered, you see that it was red or yellow (which is virtually indisguishable from white in blaring sun at 200+ yards), allowing the drop under rule 26. Ha... me good read do

i am for to writing english well as good. :)sometimes.

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