Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies

Definitions
All defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in the Definitions section.

13-1. GeneralThe ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules.

(Ball at rest moved - see Rule 18.)

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of PlayA player must not improve or allow to be improved:

+ the position or lie of his ball,

+ the area of his intended stance or swing,

+ his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or

+ the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:

+ pressing a club on the ground,

+ moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),

+ creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,

+ removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or

+ removing dew, frost or water.


Rule 18. Ball at Rest Moved

18-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment a. General

When a player's ball is in play, if:

(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies lifts or moves it, touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing it) or causes it to move except as permitted by a Rule, or

(ii) equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

What I really don't understand is when I see good players doing these things

I played a couple weeks ago with a guy who improved his lie everywhere - He comes in with a 76 - Now if I could shoot scores like that I definitely would not want them Tainted.

terpsno1 wrote:

What I really don't understand is when I see good players doing these things I played a couple weeks ago with a guy who improved his lie everywhere - He comes in with a 76 - Now if I could shoot scores like that I definitely would not want them Tainted.

Sad thing is just how many golfers do improve their lie. I work on a maintenance staff at a golf course, so spend a lot of time sitting under a tree on a piece of equipment waiting for the golfers to get far enough away where I can crank up the engine again, and I see tons of folks who roll the ball alittle so it's sitting up nice and pretty for them. What cracks me up about it even more is the place I work at has some of, if not the best, conditions in the area. So when I see a guy rolling his ball a couple inches in the fairway I have to ask myself just wtf he thinks is wrong with it.

I am not trying to start anything here, but I can't take it anymore. The whole premise of this thread is "WE PLAY BY THE RULES!!! And everybody else is cheating." But.... we improve our lie and dont take stroke and distance and we take anything inside the leather. Guess what. You're cheating. Yes. Just as bad as anybody you guys are bitching about.

I'm not trying to be rude but I am sick of the "holier than thou" attitude people have toward the rules.

Taylorfade......Good point and the point is well taken with me.

I don't think anyone outside the PGA plays the rules to the exact definitions....because to be honest...there are probably rules we haven't even read yet or rules that are being written that we don't know about yet. (every year they come up with another one)

I think the purpose of this thread was to point out that there are alot of golfers posting handicaps these days that either don't play by the rules at all or abuse the rules just to make a good score.

Now.....it really doesn't matter what you or I do on the course. I think golf is a sport built around alot of trust and respect for those you play with. If anyone wants to scratch out a card full of birdies and pars and disregard the rules or rules agreed upon .....then that's their decision to make.

All I'm saying is .....why would anyone want to claim they shoot in the 70's all the time and when you finally get to play with them.....you find out they don't play by any rules at all. Unless we're gambling....they are not cheating me....they're lying to themselves.

If you're playing with your buddys every other Sat and havin a few beers......who cares.....this post is about some of the serious golfers out there who claim to be something they're not by posting scores outside of their real skill level for the purpose of a USGA handicap.

If I ever get to scratch golf...I want the satisfaction to know it's real and not a fabricated lie of pencil whipped scorecards.

I played in a tourney today (took 2nd place in my flight) and one of the foursome was actually DQ'd for fluffing his lies. He didn't see anything wrong with it. We warned him 4 times before getting a ruling from the tourney director. Hate to be a PR&CK but money is money.

TaylorFade wrote:

I'm not trying to be rude but I am sick of the "holier than thou" attitude people have toward the rules.

At no point was I bitching about the guys who do this or that, I could care less, as long as it's not a guy I'm betting against. That's the only time it matters to me.

I hear you. I didn't mean to be rude. I was just a little bitter because we had just gotten pencil whipped in a cash tourney. But that's for another thread.

I'm not hitting off of rocks or roots either and I'll take one inside the leather; I just don't want some rule book thumper giving me the stink eye when I do.

I used to have a problem with clipping my ball with my practice swing and it ruffled some feathers when I would replay it from the previous spot, and I can now see their point, especially in a money game because from across the fairway it just looked like I shanked one. It almost never happens now, but I am way more likely to take that stroke or putt everything out if there is any doubt because when I look at my scorecard I don't want any "asterisks" on it.

I see where you guys are coming from.

TaylorFade wrote:

I hear you. I didn't mean to be rude. I was just a little bitter because we had just gotten pencil whipped in a cash tourney. But that's for another thread.

Completely understandable. I had just woken up from a nap after a couple hours of work setting up the back 9 where I work and wasn't feeling too friendly myself. No harm no foul.

And yeah, I think most of us would admit that we don't play 100% by the rules. Maybe 90%, or 95%, or even 99.9%, but I'd wager very few of us don't break the rules here and there, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Like I said, I personally don't care, as long as I don't have money on it. It's all just a healthy debate in the long run, much like the "Gimmies" thread. Like a wiseman once said, "Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one".

TF - I do play by the rules & nothing T's me off more than playing with someone that has no regard for the rules - Takes putts, Doesn't play it down, Does not assess penalties correctly, Caps their scores at double par or some other arbitrary limit and then comes in and claims to have beaten me by a stroke with some bogus stroke total he wrote down after I spent the afternoon grinding out a Legit Bogey round.

Sorry if that is Holier than Thou but that is just How I feel whether there is $$ involved or not. Sometimes it is just about the bragging rights.

Congrats. I admire your integrity and diligence.

Just so there are no asterisks on any of my scores I am gonna go back and assess penalty strokes for every time I "improved my lie" off of a thistle in the middle of the fairway. That ought to put me at about a 16 or so. I'll play to a 16. Anybody wanna play $100 a stroke?

TF. You improve your lie 10 times per round? CHEATER, CHEATER, CHEATER.

It's not so much the fairway rolls that shave strokes - I Wouldn't deny anyone a good lie if they hit the fairway & wound up on some kind of crap

It's improving out of the fairway that is the biggest abuse. We spend 5 minutes looking for a a guy's ball - find it buried in deep rough - as I am walking away - I turn around to watch the guy's shot & it is sitting up like a scope of Ice Cream. He hits a 200 yard 5 wood onto the green. He would have been lucky to get it onto the fairway with a wedge if he had played it down.

That is what I am talking about

If your ball is in the fairway, there should be no reason to fluff it. If you land on something in the fairway, complain to the ground's crew. It's the fairway for God's sake. If we all just hit the darn ball, found it, then just hit it again, we wouldn't be having this stupid forum.

On the subject of rules.......what did everybody think about the ruling on Sergios free drop on the 2nd Tie-Breaker hole with V-Jay at the Barclays?

The lie looked perfectly normal to me. He claimed there was gopher holes.

Poor ole Sergio. Another tourney lost because of nerves.