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Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?
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GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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My handicap in the men's club is based solely on scores during men's day competition.
My USGA Index is based on all scores based on the principles of the USGA Rules of Golf including men's day scores, tournaments and other proper scores. So now I have 2 handicaps.
But I golf mostly with my wife and other friends and we use the Modified Rules of Golf during casual play.
http://modifiedrulesofgolf.com/

Should I post my casual golf scores to my GHIN # and have a vanity handicap or should I post those scores separately, like on this site?

Update: I have reached a conclusion which is posted later. Thanks to all who have helped me think this through.
GrampaB70


Last edited by GrampaB70 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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Seems to me you play golf or you toy around. A handicap is valid only for games played within the rules of golf, you should not in any case count non-qualifying rounds towards any handicap, it's just bogus. What are you going to do with these "handicaps" anyway?
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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During our casual golf we do wager enough to make keeping score worthwhile. And we do use a handicap of sorts. But which one? If I develop a handicap based on the Revised Rules of Golf and use it when I am using the Revised Rules why won't that work?

But if I score, on average, a little better using the Revised Rules and don't post them to my GHIN account am I running afoul of the posting requirements?
Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject:

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If you don't play by the Rules of Golf as published by the USGA any handicap you think you have is entirely between you and the people you play with outside formal competition. The USGA handicap system is only concerned with playing under the same rules as EVERYONE else not just your casual buddies.
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject:

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Dear mister taxman,

I played a game of monopoly yesterday. I won 500.000 monoply-dollars. Do I have to pay income-tax on this?

Cool
 
player

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject:

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I think you can have only 1 handicap.
sjduffers

Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject:

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player wrote:
I think you can have only 1 handicap.


It's ok to use a separate "handicap" when playing on the Xbox, player! Very Happy
 
player

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject:

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I don`t even own an xbox I own a ps3 though
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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Jev and Rulesman I think you are both wrong. Golfers do not need to follow every Rule of Golf to be able to post an acceptable score for a USGA Handicap Index. The USGA has 2 publications. The Rules of Golf and the Handicapping Manual. The Handicapping Manual controls what scores are to be posted. The Manual does not require the golfer to follow every Rule of Golf to post their score. They built in some wiggle room. Rule 5 states the golfer must post all acceptable scores in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf. If you or anyone else fails to post a low score because you/they took a Mulligan or took a gimmie you/they will probably be considered a sandbagger. [/u]
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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Rule 1 of the suggestions contained in the Modified Rules of Golf is "Tee it Forward". I don't see how that could make a score unacceptable when the Initiative is sponsored by the PGA and USGA.

Actually failure to Tee it Forward might make your score unacceptable.

Rule 4 of the USGA Handicap Manual requires: "The game of golf is based on the premise that a player will play as well as the player can play."

If a golfer uses a set of Tees that do not allow the golfer to reach each green in regulation they are not playing as well as they could play from a set of Tees that gave them the chance to reach each green in regulation.

By not Teeing it Forward some golfers are maintaining an artificially high handicap. Yet some of them yell the loudest if a golfer takes a Mulligan or Gimmie.
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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Number 2 and part of number 4 of the suggestions in the Modified Rules of Golf deal with Ready Golf. Basically golf when ready, not just when it is your turn, on the Tee, the course and on the green. Both the PGA and USGA support Ready Golf. Nothing in Ready Golf violates the principles of the Rules of Golf.

I don't think a golfer should not record a low score because they shot out of turn.
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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Gimmies. #4 of the Modified Rules of Golf encourages gimmies and makes a suggestion of distance. Of course any golfer or group can do whatever they want. But gimmies do not make a score unacceptable for purposes of maintaining a USGA Handicap Index.

Actually both the Rules of Golf and the Handicapping Manual specifically approve gimmies. Even the Pros take gimmies in Match Play. So the concept is approved.

The only question is what score to record. The Handicap Manual says in Section 4 "Under the USGA Handicap System, each player is required to record a hole score for a hole not finished, not played, or not played under "The Rules of Golf," and to reduce any hole score when it is higher than the maximum number allowed under Equitable Stroke Control."

Section 4-1 states: "A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score."

So, even with Gimmies, your score must be recorded if you are maintaining a USGA Handicap Index.

If they are satisfactory to the USGA why shouldn't they be acceptable on a casual day of golf?
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1359

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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GrampaB70 wrote:


I don't think a golfer should not record a low score because they shot out of turn.


Agreed. The "Honors" system imposes no penalty for playing out of turn. In match play the only "penalty" is if your opponent requires you to replay the shot in the proper order.

While mentioned as part of the Rules of Golf, I think most of us in everyday play treat it more as a point of etiquette that can be dispensed with in order to speed play.
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1359

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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GrampaB70 wrote:


Section 4-1 states: "A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score."

So, even with Gimmies, your score must be recorded if you are maintaining a USGA Handicap Index.

If they are satisfactory to the USGA why shouldn't they be acceptable on a casual day of golf?


I don't think anyone would dispute that a round that has one or more conceded putts should still be posted. One must understand, however, that accepting generous "gimmees" over time will result in a vanity handicap. If one is going to play in handicapped events using a USGA handicap, it is best to putt out all but the shortest of putts.
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1359

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I have 2 handicaps or 3?

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GrampaB70 wrote:
Rule 1 of the suggestions contained in the Modified Rules of Golf is "Tee it Forward". I don't see how that could make a score unacceptable when the Initiative is sponsored by the PGA and USGA.

If a golfer uses a set of Tees that do not allow the golfer to reach each green in regulation they are not playing as well as they could play from a set of Tees that gave them the chance to reach each green in regulation.

By not Teeing it Forward some golfers are maintaining an artificially high handicap. Yet some of them yell the loudest if a golfer takes a Mulligan or Gimmie.


In part I agree with you. I do not believe anyone would suggest that one should not post scores when playing from a forward tee as long as the appropriate rating/slope is used.

I also agree that a player that deliberately plays from the "tips" in order to inflate his/her handicap would be guilty of "manipulating" the handicap system. The handicap committee would be justified if they made a handicap adjustment. In general these people stand out like a red nose. A 23.0 index player who always plays Beth Page Black from the tips would have a problem entering a handicap competition played at Hickory Pines from the 5,950 yard "White" tees.

I do not agree that a player who plays from a lengthy set of tees is guilty of manipulation merely because they can not reach all or a majority of greens in regulation.
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