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Modified Rules of Golf
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mjaber

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 1184

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject:

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Tee It Forward is a great initiative, and would go to great lengths to speed up play.

This modified rules is just a dumbing down to make people feel good, instead of teaching us that we can't always win. That's what I learned from my grandfather. Sadly, he didn't play golf. He played cards, and he taught me to play. Cribbage and 45's, every summer. We would spend hours playing. He never let me win. After each game, or each hand, he would show me where I went wrong, and offer me advice for how to play better, and eventually, I learned well enough to be competitive. Every once in a while, I even beat him. There was nothing more exciting to me. It didn't matter to me, or him, how many times he had beat me that day. He was proud of me that I had learned to play the right way, and that I had beat him fairly. I was overjoyed that I had done something that very few people in my family had ever done. He didn't change the rules for me. Sometimes, my grandmother would play as well, and he would beat her just as badly as he did me. Do you want to know what that taught me? We're all equals. It doesn't matter how young, or how old you are, male or female, if we all play by the same rules, someone is going to win and someone is going to lose.

If you want new rules for casual golfers vs. tournament players, write to the governing bodies and suggest changes.

Beef said it pretty well. The number on your scorecard at the end of your round is just a number. Who cares what it is? Take pride in the fact that you followed the rules. Enjoy the day outside. Give your buddy some light-hearted grief for missing the 3-footer for par. Look around at the scenery. Remember the good shots, forget the bad ones. I still remember the approach that led to my first birdie. A punch 7-iron out of the rough that hit the slope in front of the green and bounced up to land a couple feet from the hole. I don't remember what my score was for that round (but I can guess that it was in the low 100's), but I remember that shot.
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject:

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mjaber wrote:
I no longer play with those people.

If you cared to actually read the stats from my page that you are improperly quoting,

Your website points to other sports that have different rules for the Professional sport versus that amateur.


I have 3 responses.
I apologize for improperly quoting your stats.

I see you are already following part of Rule 14 which states in part: "If you don’t like how someone else interprets the rules don’t golf with them anymore."

I will work on the website. Apparently my intentions are not clear. Want I wanted was to encourage a discussion that would lead to the USGA adopting some rules that would encourage and enable amateur golfers to play faster and have more fun. While some golfers do just fine with the current Rules of Golf, others might welcome some formally adopted relief.
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Modified Rules of Golf

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OK Rules Guys. I need your help with this one. Let me set the stage.

My good friend and I are out for a casual day of golf. We have a bet on match play. We have both taken a few liberties from the Rules of Golf so far. 1 Mulligan on the first tee. Lots of gimmies. We got tired of begging for gimmies or waiting for them to be offered. (Actually if they were offered just as often as not the other guy would not hear them anyway) So we have agreed on a gimmie distance and each of us has a piece of tape on our putter. If our ball is within the tape it is good. If not, we putt it. We both were able to hit out of the sand on our first try, neither of us was out of bounds and nobody lost a ball. We did bump our ball frequently since hitting out of a divot requires taking another divot and our bones do not like that. (Arthritis is bad enough without taking divots). We would also bump it now and then to make sure it was our ball since neither of us can see worth a dam*.

Now we are on the 18th hole all square. We both hit nice drives we think are in the fairway. We both see the direction the drives went but neither of can see far enough to see where they landed. As we approach the balls we are both fairly excited because the match may depend on the next shot. My buddy hits first and it is a nice shot onto the green. Then I go to the next ball and it is not mine. My buddy had hit my ball by mistake. He can see a little better than me, but not much. He had forgotten to bump the ball to make sure it was his.

My buddy was ready to assess the penalty on himself and basically concede the match. Of course this is required by the Rules of Golf but I could take no comfort is winning the match because he was partially blind and made a mistake that did not hurt my game. So I convinced him to let us finish the match and see how it turned out. If I played better then I would win.

I dropped another ball at the spot where he had hit my ball, hit it on the green and 2 putted for par. He went to his ball and, dang it all, he hit on the green and 2 putted for par.

So now what do we do?

If he gets a penalty for hitting the wrong ball, I win the match. If the match is based on who hit the best shots and putted the best it is a tie. (Who buys the drinks is not based on who wins the match)

My buddy rightly feels he should be assessed a penalty since he hit the wrong ball (I would feel that way too if I had done it). But I do not want to win the match because he received a penalty for doing something that did not interfere with my game or give him an advantage. As far as I am concerned this should be covered by the "No harm, no foul" rule and I refused to accept his money.

What would you have done?
 
CeeBee

Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject:

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Here's how I see it. Two friends playing some golf. You're not playing tournament golf. You let your buddy play the shot and the match ended all square. Sounds like a tie to me.

Could you have replayed 18 untill you had a clear winner?
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject:

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CeeBee wrote:
Here's how I see it. Two friends playing some golf. You're not playing tournament golf. You let your buddy play the shot and the match ended all square. Sounds like a tie to me.

Could you have replayed 18 untill you had a clear winner?


Well we could have but it was "happy hour" and that was more important than having a winner.

Thanks for your insight.
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1424

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject:

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I do not disagree with the way you handled it. You know your golf buddy and at the end of the day if you are both okay with the result, that is all that counts.

The friends with whom I play matches are competitive, as am I. If I hit the wrong ball I would expect to lose the hole and the match just like my buddies would expect to lose the match if they did the same thing.

Frankly, I think my friends would be angry with me if I tried to extend special treatment to them. Some people do not want to feel like they were given something they did not deserve, either good or bad.

At the end of the day I would tell my friend that I felt bad taking his money on a technical issue. He would, however, have a chance to get his money back next time we played. He might not like giving me $3 but I think he would feel a lot worse if I "gave" him a win or a tie.
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 713

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: Modified Rules of Golf

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GrampaB70 wrote:
I refused to accept his money.

What would you have done?

Since this obviously has nothing to do with the game of golf, I would suggest you should've asked Player.
 
Banker85

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject:

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WOW. to each their own. I have no issues concerning how others want to play golf. I think gramps modified rules would definitely help with slow play. I see both sides of this but would never tell someone they are not playing golf cause the rules are slightly different. Golf is taking a stick and whacking a ball across a field into a hole. thats it. what happens in between is somewhat irrelevant. While i have the utmost respect for BKuehn and LegiBeef (sorry mjaber) i feel you guys are being kinda harsh in your ideals about gramps way of playing golf.
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 713

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject:

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Banker, you know, you are (somewhat) right. The basic idea of golf is:
Play the ball as it lies
Play the course as you find it
And if you can't do that, do what is fair
Moving a ball from a divot or just making other excuses for not playing as it lies have no place in golf whatsoever (and dropping it will almost certainly cost extra time). Just play the @#$&^ ball!

Golf is a test. A test involving you, a club, a ball, the course and the weather. If you want to test yourself but not follow the rules, it no longer is a test and you're fooling no-one but yourself. I don't care, it just isn't golf.

By the way, using a rule where short putts don't need holing out will prolly cost more time than just tapping it in.
 
falcon50driver

Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1664

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject:

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If you really want to get my dander up, try taking a gimmie. The whole essence of golf is, knocking a ball into a hole in the least number of strokes. Greg Chalmers famously FIVE PUTTED from 2 feet. I've heard all the arguments, we did a thread on this years ago. I still say you're not playing golf if you never make it to the hole.
 
Bryan K

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject:

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merlin3driver wrote:
If you really want to get my dander up, try taking a gimmie. The whole essence of golf is, knocking a ball into a hole in the least number of strokes. Greg Chalmers famously FIVE PUTTED from 2 feet. I've heard all the arguments, we did a thread on this years ago. I still say you're not playing golf if you never make it to the hole.


I wish it was that easy, Merlin.

I really, really want to hit all of my putts into the hole. I love the sound of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup. It's the reason why I play golf. But the people I play with sometimes just won't let me. "That's good" they'll say as they knock the ball out of the way.

I've tried to tell them to stop to no avail. They all know I like to hit the ball into the cup, and they all know that I don't give any free strokes. But what can a guy do when, quite literally, everyone is doing it?

Drives me nuts. I'm going to be playing a tournament one day, and I'll five putt a hole from within two feet. I just know it.
 
legitimatebeef

Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject:

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merlin3driver wrote:
If you really want to get my dander up, try taking a gimmie. The whole essence of golf is, knocking a ball into a hole in the least number of strokes. Greg Chalmers famously FIVE PUTTED from 2 feet. I've heard all the arguments, we did a thread on this years ago. I still say you're not playing golf if you never make it to the hole.


It bugs me too. Someone huffs and puffs and practically splits his nutsack trying to move the ball the quarter mile or more from the tee to the green, and once they finally get near the hole they pick it up? That is just wrong. Ball goes in the hole, it's the object of the game, simple as that. When people do that I always think to myself "What exactly are you doing out here???" Awful lot of walking and schlepping just to whack a ball around here and there.
 
legitimatebeef

Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject:

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Bryan K wrote:

I really, really want to hit all of my putts into the hole. I love the sound of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup. It's the reason why I play golf. But the people I play with sometimes just won't let me. "That's good" they'll say as they knock the ball out of the way.

I've tried to tell them to stop to no avail. They all know I like to hit the ball into the cup, and they all know that I don't give any free strokes. But what can a guy do when, quite literally, everyone is doing it?


When this happens I just say "No thanks, I mean I wish I could take it and all but I can't", replace the ball and hit the putt.

This is where I get all pollyanna and idealistic but I think it is important for golfers to uphold some semblance of properness and in a small way set an example for those who just don't know any better.
GrampaB70
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject:

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Bryan K wrote:
I really, really want to hit all of my putts into the hole. I love the sound of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup. It's the reason why I play golf. But the people I play with sometimes just won't let me. "That's good" they'll say as they knock the ball out of the way.

I've tried to tell them to stop to no avail. They all know I like to hit the ball into the cup, and they all know that I don't give any free strokes. But what can a guy do when, quite literally, everyone is doing it?


Bryan when we have our causal round of golf I will let you putt out each hole and I hope you understand I may pick up my gimmies if within the leather. In our groups we all understand anything within the leather is a potential gimmie and each golfer can either pick it up or putt it out, their choice. No begging for gimmies and no need to offer one. Just measure it. If it within the leather they can pick it up if they want. But, if like you, they want to putt it, fine.
No one feels they have to give someone else a gimmie because they are taking some.
 
legitimatebeef

Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Modified Rules of Golf

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GrampaB70 wrote:
My good friend and I are out for a casual day of golf. We have a bet on match play. We have both taken a few liberties from the Rules of Golf so far. 1 Mulligan on the first tee. Lots of gimmies. We got tired of begging for gimmies or waiting for them to be offered. (Actually if they were offered just as often as not the other guy would not hear them anyway) So we have agreed on a gimmie distance and each of us has a piece of tape on our putter.


Sorry Grandpa but this is where you lose me entirely. You have made the argument that some aspects of the game are simply too arduous for some people. You say that holes can be too long, divots too difficult to hit out of, hazards too penal, etc. But all this carrying on about conceded putts is just going way way too far in my opinion. Begging for gimmes? Good god man. The great thing about putting is that its not physically demanding, yet still excruciatingly challenging and that anyone with a pulse and an opposable thumb can potentially hit good putts and be competitive on the greens. An octogenarian lady could have a putting match with Tiger or Phil and potentially have a chance to beat them. Another cool thing about golf is that the closer you get to the hole, the more precise you must be. Therein lies so much challenge and fun. When you take away the game on the greens, what is left? Are you looking to remove all the risk from golf, do you want it to be as safe and predictable as possible? That's what it seems like.
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