GrampaB70 wrote:

Bryan K wrote: I really, really want to hit all of my putts into the hole. I love the sound of the ball hitting the bottom of the cup. It's the reason why I play golf. But the people I play with sometimes just won't let me. "That's good" they'll say as they knock the ball out of the way. I've tried to tell them to stop to no avail. They all know I like to hit the ball into the cup, and they all know that I don't give any free strokes. But what can a guy do when, quite literally, everyone is doing it? Bryan when we have our causal round of golf I will let you putt out each hole and I hope you understand I may pick up my gimmies if within the leather. In our groups we all understand anything within the leather is a potential gimmie and each golfer can either pick it up or putt it out, their choice. No begging for gimmies and no need to offer one. Just measure it. If it within the leather they can pick it up if they want. But, if like you, they want to putt it, fine. No one feels they have to give someone else a gimmie because they are taking some.

Do what you wish. But don't you dare try to claim a par or better after taking a gimme. I'll mock you relentlessly:)

Bryan K wrote:

Do what you wish. But don't you dare try to claim a par or better after taking a gimme. I'll mock you relentlessly:)

If hit a good drive about 185 down the middle of the fairway and make a good second shot to the green about 25 feet from the flag and I then lag putt to within 12 inches I will feel like I played the hole well whether I pick up or make the putt. It really makes no difference to me at that point. It is easier on my back to pick the ball from the green than it is from the bottom of the cup.

Mock me all you want. I will do my best not to let you get into my head. I some ways I am still a tough old guy.

I hope you will get tired of mocking me since I expect at least 8 or 10 pars or better on a good round. But I do like the sound of the birdie putt hitting the bottom of the cup. Those are worth bending over a little more.

I hope some of you will wish me luck as my wife and I leave to go golfing. Suggestion #1 of the Modified Rules is "Tee it Forward". Rather than use the Blue or White Tees I move forward to the Gold Tees. But the course we will play today has not yet installed a set of Tees that my wife can use if she wants to Tee it Forward. In essence she has to use her Blue Tees. But we have fixed that. I have prepared a scorecard for that course that is based on where the Forward Tees should be to make the course about 4,250 for her.
2 weeks ago we played that course and she had 4 birdies and 5 pars. I played well, but not that well and she won the match, no strokes.
One of the guys we golf with hits his drives 275 to 300 yards. But on several holes my wife can out drive him (or at least end up closer to the green). She gives herself a smiley face on her card. But while he will use a wedge to the green she still has to use her 11 wood. But she has the chance to reach the green and you can tell from 2 weeks ago she frequently does.

I seems a shame to me that more courses do not have Forward Tees for ladies to use. It is so simple to do. see http://modifiedrulesofgolf.com/forward-tees/

If any of you wished me well on golf today, thank you. I won today. And I was able to spend the day on the course in 85 degree sunny weather with my best friend, my wife. While she was able to score in the 80's I had a good day and won our match.

She proved another thing about the Forward Tees. While they do give her a chance to score well, she still has to make the shots. Today she didn't do that often enough. She had 5 par's and no birdies. I, on the other hand, had a good day. Using the Gold Tees I had 12 par's. Sorry Bryan, you could not have mocked me too much today. I was using a new long putter and I could not lag close to the hole. Seemed I had to putt almost every putt to the bottom of the cup.

If some of you guys want to curl up in bed with your Rules Book more power to you. I would much sooner curl up in bed with my lovely wife who is happy with only 5 par's for the day. I am going to continue to do everything I can to help her have fun golfing. I don't really care what you think.

GrampaB70 wrote:

If any of you wished me well on golf today, thank you. I won today. And I was able to spend the day on the course in 85 degree sunny weather with my best friend, my wife. While she was able to score in the 80's I had a good day and won our match. She proved another thing about the Forward Tees. While they do give her a chance to score well, she still has to make the shots. Today she didn't do that often enough. She had 5 par's and no birdies. I, on the other hand, had a good day. Using the Gold Tees I had 12 par's. Sorry Bryan, you could not have mocked me too much today. I was using a new long putter and I could not lag close to the hole. Seemed I had to putt almost every putt to the bottom of the cup. If some of you guys want to curl up in bed with your Rules Book more power to you. I would much sooner curl up in bed with my lovely wife who is happy with only 5 par's for the day. I am going to continue to do everything I can to help her have fun golfing. I don't really care what you think.

Whatever works for you is really all that matters as long as you aren't competing against others who are playing by the official Rules of Golf. It also doesn't really matter, or shouldn't anyway, what anyone here thinks. Everyone is entitled to play their own way as long as it does not slow down those behind you, or pressure those in front of you, and you respect the course and are courteous to others who are out there. It's your prerogative to use any rules you want.

It sounds to me as if you really enjoyed yourself out on the golf course today with your wife. Isn't that what it's all about? I can appreciate and respect your approach to the game, and to life. More power to you.

I'd play a round with you any day. I won't use your modified rules, but I bet I'll still enjoy your company.

Finally a voice of reason. Thats all Grampa has been saying all along. I play with he and his wife every Friday and we enjoy each other each time. Our fourth is a blaster that plays off a 3 or 4 and kills the ball. He has as much fun as we do.
Thank you for being one of the few that have thought this out.

DougE wrote:

I'd play a round with you any day. I won't use your modified rules, but I bet I'll still enjoy your company.

Thanks, I look forward to it. Maybe it can happen someday.

Grandpa nobody I mean nobody would begrudge you and yours for having a great time on the course in the way that you see fit. I think the point of contention is where you suggest the modified rules as something to be spread around. I mean you did introduce them by asking Do you want to shoot better scores, play faster and have more fun? For most of us the answer to that is HELL YES but the methodology you are suggesting is not going to really resonate on a stat-keeping site such as this one. Probably the majority of users here are going to want to achieve lower scores faster play and more fun, however they are set on achieving it the old-fashioned way--by working to improve their game.

For my part I'm not obsessed with the rules, I am not a rules Nazi, I don't "sleep with my rule book" (I don't even own a copy), its simply how I play my rounds, the only way I know how to play golf. My main goal in golf is not to achieve perfect rule following, it's to continue to improve. I believe the only way to do that is to play straight up.

So I know that your modified rules aren't meant to appeal to me, but its in the spirit of discussion that I say that I do take issue with the idea of propagating them and or standardizing them. I hate to be the slippery-slope-guy but I think this is kind of a slippery slope. I think at some point you just have to present the game on its own merits. Is it going to put some people off with its difficulty? Sure. It is an exceptionally challenging game, so its appeal can always be only so wide. I realize its easy for me to say that the game doesn't necessarily need growing, since I am not in the business of golf. In my neck of the woods at least the business seems very healthy. On any given good weather day, the courses around here get absolutely clogged with people (a good chunk of them playing some version of modified rules).

If you're not playing from the tips, aren't you playing modified golf?

legitimatebeef wrote:

In my neck of the woods at least the business seems very healthy. On any given good weather day, the courses around here get absolutely clogged with people (a good chunk of them playing some version of modified rules).

I have 2 sets of home courses. The membership at our club is down to about 200 from over 400. We need more members. On our other facility we have 4 courses busy from daylight until dark and play can be very slow.

When you get behind that "dreadful foursome" that does not play ready golf, goes back to re-hit shots, takes 4 more strokes to get of the green side bunker that they reached in 5 and then each golfer putts in turn after marking every missed putt, maybe you will want to give that group a copy of the Modified Rules. Particularly when there are 2 or more holes open in front of them.

The Rules of Golf are not Divinely inspired and written in stone. Actually the USGA just revised some a few months ago as part of their 4 year cycle. There are a few changes I think they should make and I hope more golfers will let them know they should consider some changes.

If golf is a game of skill and not luck divots should be considered Ground Under Repair. If we both hit perfect drives down the middle of the fairway and yours is on grass and, due to bad luck, mine is in an big divot, we do not have an equal opportunity on our next shot. I think they should change that rule.

Slow play is a common complaint. Any rule that requires the golfer to move backwards on the course to hit over compounds the problem. Not all of us have a forecaddy like the Pro's. OK penalize a bad shot but the USGA should change the rules to keep the game moving forward. They might even adopt an Etiquette Rule that required club throwers to always throw their club forward.

Many golfers are deathly afraid of sand bunkers. Few courses I play keep their bunkers as nice as the ones played by the Pro's. Some have nice sand, some have course sand, some have wet compact sand and some have almost no sand at all. Good golfers seem to manage OK. But I think the USGA should change their rules and allow an amateur golfer the option of declaring an unplayable lie, take a penalty for their bad shot that put them in the bunker, lift their ball and drop outside of the bunker.

Most of these suggestions follow the concept that if you hit a bad shot you are penalized but you get to take your penalty and play on. Keep the game moving.

Currently the USGA is speaking out of both sides of its mouth, so to speak. It publishes the Rules of Golf which does not allow gimmies, except in Match Play. But only the Pro's play scratch golf. All the rest of us use the handicap system. They also publish the Handicap Manual. The Manual specifically says that gimmies are allowed and Winter Rules are allowed all year when it comes to posting acceptable scores for handicap purposes. Since they allow both of them in the Manual I hope they will change the Rules of Golf to allow them for all amateurs.

An update. The PGA has recently posted Pace of Play Hints: http://pdf.pgalinks.com/p-g-a/Pace_of_Play.pdf

On their list are:

"If not in a tournament, play balls that are out of bounds, lost etc. under the lateral water hazard
rule."

"Limit your search for a lost ball to three minutes."

"Continue putting until your ball is holed."

They did not mention gimmies but the USGA Handicap Manual already says they are OK.

Some of those modified rules are kind of a joke. A player that gets used to playing under those rules has a meaningless handicap index, and will be sorely disappointed if they play a real tournament and find out the real rules, or if they even learn to follow the real rules. I have played in casual tourneys where players scores themselves and were using some of these kinds of modified rules, thinking they were the real rules... it completely ruined the competition because some people were using the real rules, true to the game and some people were not.

There is something to be said for casual play and pace of play, but on the other hand, how are you supposed to establish an accurate index unless you follow the real rules? PGA probably doesn't care if you create a falsely low handicap because it hurts only the player, nobody else. They get their ego boosted, but it will hurt them in real competition.

Some of the rules in that list are absurd. Play OOB like hazard? Marked OOB is a major part of the game. Players who shoot OOB where OOB is clearly marked with white stakes or fence, should technically speaking get stroke + distance penalty. If they want to play the ball like a lateral hazard, they should get two strokes penalty, not one. Some thing goes for lost balls. Technically they are supposed to go back to where they hit the ball, but for sake of play it is probably ok to play it like a lateral, with 2 strokes penalty, not one.

Those rules are a joke really. The only time something like that should be allowed would be for a club only tournament series where there are no outsiders and the club members track a separate index used only by them within their club events.

The only time I would be ok with the lateral hazard rule is if you are playing a course, say in the desert, where there are no OOB markers, and nearly every hole has wilderness on either side of the fairway. If the ball goes into the wilderness, its probably lost, but 2 stroke penalty is too extreme, so I am ok playing those like a lateral hazard. However, in reality, its really up to the course to establish the course rules as such, and the course rating and slope should be effected by that course rule as well.

Some of the other rules like putting all the way to the hole are good modified rules as they are more about etiquete. Not sure about the gimmies, I don't think gimmie's should be part of index calculation ever, but most people know their own ability to normally make 18 inch putts, so if you think you are 99% certain to make those, I don't have a problem with taking gimmies, it will not impact index, and if it did it would again only hurt the player. But I have observed some players who are simply not honest with themselves about gimmies. i have seen players with allegedly single digit handicap get upset because they were not granted a 3 foot gimmie, and that is pushing it. I like to keep it simple, I always make all my putts. it doesn't take that long to tap in that 18 incher, pace of play is not appreciably effected by that.

In some ways the 4 putt gimmies is possibly a good rule since that is almost like a form of ESC, hehe.

Anyway I don't know, I'm ok with rules that speed up play a bit, but not the ones giving free strokes to people instead of penalizing them appropriately for OOB and even for lost ball, though lost ball really sucks sometimes when you simply can't find the ball within a few square feet of where it landed. It goes cause people to search endlessly for it, and perhaps they would find it if they had the chance. But technially speaking it should be two stroke penalty, not one. If they want to speed up play, then make the rule that player SHALL NOT spend more than 3 minutes searching, if ball not found in 3 mins then the ball must be played like lateral with 2 stroke penalty.

The modified rules I'm ok with:

• tee it forward. As far as I know, you should be playing from the appropriate tees. Some people don't realize they're SUPPOSED to be one tee forward. So that is not really a modified rule.
  
• Ready golf, absolutely. That is more about etiquete.
  
• Only allow one mulligan on the first teebox but only if no driving range practice happened beforehand
  
• landscaping plants, ok, we don't want to ruin the course.
  
• pickup the ball if you have met or exceeded your ESC max for the hole and not playing in a tourney
  

Generally speaking I think all players should know and follow the real rules of golf. Whenever they are contemplating an exception, they should try to ethically determine if they are asking for a cheat to their score or not. if they are asking for a cheat, then they should reconsider the workaround such that their score will not advantage, but pace of play will be continued. That kind of subjectivity is really hard to do, which is precisely why the rules are so strict to begin with.

With extreme beginners perhaps it makes sense, for example, to have them drop a ball out of a bunker (on the far side of the bunker away from the hole), with a stroke penalty, but not the vast majority of golfers that are serious enough to follow any rules at all or compete in any way.

Those modified rules are only useful for friendly competition between players, but should be excluded from index calculation and the players should at all times be made aware they are following modified rules for woosies. heheheh

When I first started this forum I suggested that using the Modified Rules of Golf could help you score better. The primary reason was rule #1, Tee it Forward. I notice that Jack Nicklaus agrees. He says: "If golfers, who often play too far back, would move to a more forward tee, they are going to be left with shorter irons into greens, which enhances their ability to score better, and, in the end, makes the game more fun…and that's what it's all about."
http://www.pga.com/news/pga/nicklaus-johnson-and-creamer-encourage-golfers-tee-it-forward
And Ladies should have that option too.

Thanks for sharing information. Actually I had also the same question in mind for a long time anyways you started this thread & I am so happy.


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