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No gimmes in golf ?????????????

 
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H Head

Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: No gimmes in golf ?????????????

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Unreal that a pro can miss a 1 footer for all the marbles.

My college golf coach drilled into us to never concede a putt if it still meant something, and in my day 75% of our intercollegiate matches were match play. To this day, some of my friends get "pissed" when I don't knock back a 12-18 incher. (we are always playing for 'something') I just ask "are you going to putt out or mark" if they just stand there. The game says you are to play it into the hole. Plus, if I have a great hole, or struggle mightily on a hole, I want to hear that beautiful sound of ball hitting the bottom of the cup.

Sometimes I am aghast at the length putts that are conceded at the Ryder/Presidents Cup matches.

QUESTION: Do you ever give putts..and what is the minimum length.


Last edited by H Head on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1417

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject:

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When I play a match, which is invariably with the Little Irish B-----d, we give each other putts. My decision on whether to concede a putt is based primarily on if I might miss the putt. A straight in 12-incher will almost always be conceded but once some slope is introduced and/or it gets outside the one foot range, I err on the side of making him putt. My opponent operates on the same principals based on what I see him concede to me. Once I have won the hole, he can do whatever he pleases (pick-up, play out the hole). I play out the hole when I have lost as long as I am not holding up anyone. On a busy day I tend to pick-up once I am over my ESC stroke count.

Obviously in a stroke play tournament everything is holed. In a casual round, I don't particularly care what everyone else does.
 
legitimatebeef

Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject:

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Good topic Mr Head. That short miss by IK Kim on such a big stage has implications for golfers at all levels I think. I don't compete so I'm not familiar with the culture of gimmies but it has always seemed weird to me. There's like an unspoken code between players, something like "Don't insult me with a short putt and in return I won't insult you". What's that old joke, a gimme is an agreement between two guys who can't putt.

But even among professionals and good golfers it does seem sort of taboo to make someone putt out something inside of two feet. I would probably go along with what your coach said and just not give anything away. If that ruffles the feathers of the opponent, hey, even better. I mean in football pissing off the defense is probably not a good idea but in golf people tend to play worse when they are mad right?

I originally thought conceded putts were there for convenience, like when one player has a short birdie putt and the other isn't even on the green yet with no hope of winning, the rule allows for conceding the inevitable when the hole is essentially been decided already.

On the other hand let's say your opponent has a two footer to halve the hole. In that case I just don't see any practical benefit to conceding the putt. I know some people would say they don't want to win a hole that way and that's what I suspect goes on in those Ryder and Presidents cups.
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 709

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject:

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Not conceding short or in contrary conceding long putts is part of the psychological dogfight and thus an important strategical weapon. Never conceding a putt may be just as stupid as always conceding putts within a fixed distance. It'll make you look weak, and don't count on your opponent conceding that 3-footer if you make him putt everything too.

Also, it is part of the gamesmanship. Real gentlemen won't kick a dog when he's down - if you are 4 up with 6 to go it's pretty easy to concede that 3-footer (and you won't have to wait for your opponent to putt and thus break your flow!).
Dusty23
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject:

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If its a match that has something on the line, then definitely make the putt, casual round probably not if its "inside the leather". Of course whats inside the leather mean now with these extra long putters ?
I read once that to improve your putting you should always hole out to get that positive feedback of the sound of the ball falling in the cup, which became a habit for me, which got me some weird looks when I just assumed that everyone felt the same way and wasn't giving any putts. Finally, if I have a putt for par or better that could be conceded I always putt them in so I know I earned it, I've missed a few gimmes before
SteveMM

Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Posts: 644

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject:

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With my playing partners and me it comes down largely to the number of strokes on the hole. I never concede par putts or better ... you just have to make those. The distance from the hole that I will concede increases with the number of strokes over par. For instance, I'm much more generous with a putt for triple bogie than I would be with a putt for bogie.
 
H Head

Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject:

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jev wrote:
Not conceding short or in contrary conceding long putts is part of the psychological dogfight and thus an important strategical weapon. Never conceding a putt may be just as stupid as always conceding putts within a fixed distance. It'll make you look weak, and don't count on your opponent conceding that 3-footer if you make him putt everything too.

Also, it is part of the gamesmanship. Real gentlemen won't kick a dog when he's down - if you are 4 up with 6 to go it's pretty easy to concede that 3-footer (and you won't have to wait for your opponent to putt and thus break your flow!).


Its fine JEV...I always putt out...don't want to ever be "given" a putt..it isn't golf then...plus we always have $ on the line.
 
jev

Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 709

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject:

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H Head wrote:
it isn't golf then...plus we always have $ on the line.

Conceding putts, holes or even matches is part of matchplay, which arguably is the most original form of golf competition. You having a couple of $ on the line doesn't really compare to the big stakes on the tour right? And those pro's concede!
 
jpjeffery

Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject:

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Funny thing, I was going to start a similar thread. My PP and I don't really play against each other on the course (although we do work out the Stableford scores over a lager in the bar) but instead just enjoy the golf and try to play well.

Sometimes though he gives me a putt that's close to the hole, but I never want him to. Primarily because I want to close out every hole just for the mental satisfaction but also because it doesn't seem right since we're not playing match play! A couple of rounds ago he was insistent upon giving me a putt while I was insistent he leave the damn ball alone and let me putt it. He went ahead and knocked it away anyway. A little 'discussion' ensued!

Was I right to be pissed at him?
 
Bryan K

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject:

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jpjeffery wrote:
Funny thing, I was going to start a similar thread. My PP and I don't really play against each other on the course (although we do work out the Stableford scores over a lager in the bar) but instead just enjoy the golf and try to play well.

Sometimes though he gives me a putt that's close to the hole, but I never want him to. Primarily because I want to close out every hole just for the mental satisfaction but also because it doesn't seem right since we're not playing match play! A couple of rounds ago he was insistent upon giving me a putt while I was insistent he leave the damn ball alone and let me putt it. He went ahead and knocked it away anyway. A little 'discussion' ensued!

Was I right to be pissed at him?


I think that depends on why you play. I don't get pissed anymore when people do this. But if I'm having a great round, I will replace my ball, as per the rules, and putt it out to make sure my score is official.
Dusty23
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject:

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Your buddy should respect your request to let you putt out, so I guess yeah you have a right to be a little pissed off. My group will often say, that's good, or you can take that one or some other indicator that they're giving a putt, but if one of us says something they will leave it alone and let you putt out if thats what you want. Now I have heard that if somebody concedes you a putt and you putt it out anyhow and miss, that you better not expect to take the gimme that was offered and you are on the hook for whatever it takes to putt out. Don't know if this is a rule of match play or not.
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1417

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject:

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Dusty23 wrote:
Now I have heard that if somebody concedes you a putt and you putt it out anyhow and miss, that you better not expect to take the gimme that was offered and you are on the hook for whatever it takes to putt out. Don't know if this is a rule of match play or not.


A conceded putt can not be missed in match play. Once an opponent gives you the putt, it is considered holed. You may, however, putt out without penalty. A miss is not taken into consideration.

Which brings me to a point about people "giving me" a putt. I really don't want someone to give me a putt (except as part of match play event). Once they say, "That's good if you want it" it tends to throw me off my routine. At that point everyone is sort of expecting you to pick it up and move along. If I insist on putting out, I feel like I need to "rush" my effort. In a perfect world I take my time and to hell with everyone else. The fact is, however, that I typically do not stick to the routine and often rush my effort, with occasional disasterous results. I know it is on me to have proper preparation but I do let peer pressure force me into pulling the trigger before I should. Something to work on.
 
legitimatebeef

Joined: 09 May 2010
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject:

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People can be so generous with putts that are not theirs to give away. I especially hate the post-miss gimme. "It's OK, I'll give you that one." It's a whole culture of enabling and wussification. I hate it.
 
H Head

Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject:

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legitimatebeef wrote:
People can be so generous with putts that are not theirs to give away. I especially hate the post-miss gimme. "It's OK, I'll give you that one." It's a whole culture of enabling and wussification. I hate it.



TOTALLY AGREE
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