There are so many 'rules of etiquette' in this game that most players are willing to let some slide, especially with inexperienced golfers. Sometimes these rules are not followed for time, convenience or simple frustration for whatever reason. A few that I can think of off the top of my head are:

Not fixing ballmarks
Not replacing/filling divots
Not letting faster groups play through
Driving cart too close to green
Talking on cell phone on course
Players making noise/Talking loud/etc.
Players playing out of turn
Players not playing 'ready golf'
Groups taking too long at turn
People dragging spikes across greens/not walking carefully on green
Player not raking bunker
Player not knowing rules/not following rules/cheating

That's all I can think of without straining my brain too much. For me, I think the most annoying breech is Players not fixing ballmarks on green. Most of the other stuff annoys me (cell phone on course is probably second most annoying), but I can live with. Ideally, all golfers follow these rules, which are mostly simple common sense anyway, but it's not going to happen.

I think the only thing that really bothers me is pace of play.

Story time:

Last time I played a nice course (which I don't get to do often) me and my dad were playing behind a group that was teeing Off on #3 and we were on 1# they insisted on playing the blue tees. And then would only drive the ball to the begining of fairway. This was fine except the first guy tee'd off 3 balls, next guy 1, next guy 1, next guy 5-6? Then they would scramble trying to find them. Most of them OB, and take 15 to 20 mins at a time to finish. Well then we caught up to them, I was coming of a back to back pars. They hit 3 balls each on thier first shot and we couldn't tee off for 10 minutes. Not once offering to let us pass, it had me throwing my pw by then end of the hole. We finished behind them playing over 5 hours! Worst round ever!

Besides that I hate when I go to tee off and hear " I hope we don't get held up by these two" by two guys wearing the latest gear. Only for them to hit the ball under 100 yards and into the woods. And look over to thier partner and say damn it that was a pro V. I mean really, I'm not a "good golfer" and so I don't act better than I am.

Thanks for bringing this subject up, you'll probably get a lot of response. Most of us play to relax and have a good time. It's a shame that the clueless people can ruin it for everybody else. If they would just keep in mind, that the best thing they can do, is try to be invisible, and leave no evidence that they were ever there. That includes not leaving anything on the green, sunflower seed hulls, cigarette butts, spike marks, pitch marks. The cellphone should be turned OFF. By the way I liked your list, it should be required reading before being allowed on the course.

Players that aren't ready to hit when it is their turn - Having to be told it is their turn and then have to go through their whole prep routine while everyone is watching them.

Players that constantly ask me for the Distance out

CHEATING.
Players who improve their lie, take 5' gimmes on their own, take mulligans more than agreed upon (one off the tee or one per side), score 5 when they hit 6 or more. The list goes on. After the round they brag or just comment on scoring what they listed on the card rather than what they REALLY shot.

In AZ. there are a lot of desert areas around almost every course. Some guys won't hit off the dirt/desert claiming 'I'm not ruining my new club hitting out of this crap.' My though is if you don't want to hit off it, don't hit into it. The course is designed to drive to grass, hit to green, putt to hole. It's designed to penalize you for NOT doing this. Practice more on the range, SIM or whatever method you use.

Pace of Play - I think confronting someone is usually pretty effective. People don't tell other people off enough. I think the "Don't talk to strangers" lesson should end at age 12-14. Tell someone they are slow or ask to pass them on the next hole. Usually they will be caught off guard that someone spoke to them. Walk up to them after they drive, its not like you are going anywhere. If they argue back, tell them fine and keep thier ears open because you will be yelling "Fore!" quite a bit.

Sorry for the rant.

Farmkid - I totally disagree - That is not the way to handle it - Unless you are looking for a fight - which you will definitely find wih that approach

and threatening to hit into someome is the ultimate breach of Etiquette as far as i am concerned

Actually Intentionally hitting into someone is criminal - No place in this sport for that tyoe of behavior.

The problem with slow players is that none of them actually beleive they play slow - there in lies the problem.

terps,
My post did come off as aggressive. So take the aggressiveness out of it and tell me if you think approaching the group ahead of you is appropriate or not? If appropriate what should I say? a. can my group play through? (then walk back 125 yards to hit my approach shot?)
b. can you speed up? (quit hitting 3 mulligans? then walk 125 yards back to my approach shot?)

Part of the problem is that putting and chipping takes more time than teeing off and hitting the second shot. So the place on the course that gets bogged is the approach shot to the green (this ruins hitting rythmn). Consider also that a slow group is usually off the tee box by the time a fast group is off the green and can catch them on the tee.

I think golf needs a universal sign to show the group in front that the group behind would like to play through and they should wait to tee off at the next tee. Perhaps like putting a hat on a club and holding it in the air for the slow group to see. The slow team could respond in the same way showing that they will wait at the next tee box. Problem solved

The courses that are carved out of the desert are usually very pretty, but the surrounding terrain really is damaging to the golf clubs. I've played a lot of them in NM,AZ,NV, and Mexico, and after gouging some of my nice wrenches on the rocks, I decided to make an agreement with my playing partners that I would treat any ball in the gravel as if it were in a pond, take a stroke, move to grass, and save my clubs. Everyone I have played with, has agreed. It just depends on how competetive the group wants to be.

Golfray, there is nothing wrong with your gravel solution as long as it's agreed among the group. It really doesn't matter unless you are using your score as a true measure of your handicap. Taking a penalty as you have stated is basically calling it an unplayable lie and is well within the rules, as far as I know.

technicaly it isn't really playing it as an unplayable lie - it is more like calling the rocky area a lateral hazard

An unplayable lie only gets you 2 club lengths relief to move the ball - that may not get you clear of the rocks.

Unplayble also allows you to move back on a line with the pin as far as you want - but that probably doesn't help you in this situation

and then there is always stroke & distance

pace of play always kills me once when i was playing golf it was very slow a couple slowed us on the front 9 and there was a HUGE backub on 10. i waited about 10 minutes before teeing off. i also waited a long time for them to get off the 13th green, and again on 15, AND AGAIN on 18. despite all that, i broke 100 for the first time ever OK I SO DID NOT BREAK 100 I HAD A 102 I SUBTRACTED 2 STROKES TO MATCH 100 AND NOT BREAK 100.

Slow play is bothersome but its the type of slow play to me. Some days you just have to face the music that you have a bunch of 4 somes in front of you and you aren't going to go anywhere. HOWEVER here is the type of slow play that pisses me off. Yesterday I went out at like 545 to try to get a quick 9 in. There is a single ahead of me, noone holding him up. First of all he has his wife and kid walking with him. His wife took some swings even though she didn't bring clubs and the kid was making noises at animals. Then the guy decides to hit like 3 balls a hole. Now I don't mind hitting an extra ball or whatever, especially late in the day like that, but he was playing them all out. If you hit a bad shot, fine hit another and try to correct it, but don't then play both or more into the hole. Pick one to play and pick up the rest.

Not raking the sand is my biggest peeve. Perhaps that's only because so many players around here don't rake. I hate hitting out of someone's footprint.

One other thing that bothers me is when players hit from the blue tees when they clearly shouldn't be. I know that this is kind of an ego thing to a lot of people. The 12-year old kids I played with tonight insisted on hitting from the blue tees while I shot from the whites even after I told them "I don't know about you guys, but I'm not good enough to shoot from back there"....until about the 7th hole.

I haven't run into most of the things you mentioned... but the biggest for me are the teenage kids who get out there and start yelling like nobody else is around. You make a great shot, okay, cool... enjoy it. But theres no reason to be making a whole crapton of ruckus out there...

Pace of play is big for me, even within my group. We're always good about letting faster groups play through, but there have been times when, within my foursome, a ball has obviously gone out of bounds, and 1 or 2 of them will take 5 or 10 minutes looking for it. Usually they've already hit a provisional, or will take a drop where the ball disappeared.

I would have to agree with Jake on this one. Slow play is bad enough by itself, but it doesn't need to be compounded by stupidity. If someone is just a begginer, or an avid player is just having a horrible day, that's one thing. When people don't know what they're doing, that's an entire different issue. The most frustrating thing is when you get behind a group that does not belong on a golf course. THAT is by far the most frustrating and unfortunately the most common breech of golf etiquette.

Like most, pace of play tops the list easily. Especially since I also hate playing through (feel rushed and throw away a hole), if the other people would just keep a 4:30 pace or better, it'd be great.

The next items, ranked:
Not fixing ballmarks - your mother doesn't go behind you cleaning up your mess
Driving cart too close to green - how lazy ARE you
Player not raking bunker - see ballmarks
Player not knowing rules/not following rules/cheating - corollary one thereof: but think they do/are/think their score is legitimate (I usually know and admit when I've fudged a hole)

Probably mentioned this before, But leaving anything on the green is beyond inexcusable. Cigarette butts, sunflower seed shells. I just can't believe I still see these things.

merlin2driver wrote:

Probably mentioned this before, But leaving anything on the green is beyond inexcusable. Cigarette butts, sunflower seed shells. I just can't believe I still see these things.

Saw sunflower seed shells on the green for the first time last week; I couldn't believe my eyes.

What he said!

quote="pikapp23"]There are so many 'rules of etiquette' in this game that most players are willing to let some slide, especially with inexperienced golfers. Sometimes these rules are not followed for time, convenience or simple frustration for whatever reason. A few that I can think of off the top of my head are:

Not fixing ballmarks
Not replacing/filling divots
Not letting faster groups play through
Driving cart too close to green
Talking on cell phone on course
Players making noise/Talking loud/etc.
Players playing out of turn
Players not playing 'ready golf'
Groups taking too long at turn
People dragging spikes across greens/not walking carefully on green
Player not raking bunker
Player not knowing rules/not following rules/cheating

That's all I can think of without straining my brain too much. For me, I think the most annoying breech is Players not fixing ballmarks on green. Most of the other stuff annoys me (cell phone on course is probably second most annoying), but I can live with. Ideally, all golfers follow these rules, which are mostly simple common sense anyway, but it's not going to happen.[/quote]

Quote:

Sorry, but the unplayable lie relief is the same as a lateral, 2 clubs OR as far back as you like - no closer to the hole.

terpsno1 wrote:

technicaly it isn't really playing it as an unplayable lie - it is more like calling the rocky area a lateral hazard An unplayable lie only gets you 2 club lengths relief to move the ball - that may not get you clear of the rocks. Unplayble also allows you to move back on a line with the pin as far as you want - but that probably doesn't help you in this situation and then there is always stroke & distance

As Far back as you like - but you must stay on line with the ball and the pin - This may or may not help you depending on the layout of the whole and where the ball is sitting.

And like I said - there is always stroke & distance

This is definitely not the same as a hazard - In that situation you may not even know where the ball is if it is in a lake or stream or high grass. With unplayable - you know the location of the ball to be able to line it up with the pin.

Farm_kid wrote:

terps, My post did come off as aggressive. So take the aggressiveness out of it and tell me if you think approaching the group ahead of you is appropriate or not? If appropriate what should I say? a. can my group play through? (then walk back 125 yards to hit my approach shot?) b. can you speed up? (quit hitting 3 mulligans? then walk 125 yards back to my approach shot?) Part of the problem is that putting and chipping takes more time than teeing off and hitting the second shot. So the place on the course that gets bogged is the approach shot to the green (this ruins hitting rythmn). Consider also that a slow group is usually off the tee box by the time a fast group is off the green and can catch them on the tee. I think golf needs a universal sign to show the group in front that the group behind would like to play through and they should wait to tee off at the next tee. Perhaps like putting a hat on a club and holding it in the air for the slow group to see. The slow team could respond in the same way showing that they will wait at the next tee box. Problem solved

No universal sign required. Sounds like you're getting to the tee prior to them leaving it, right? You tee off (even if they already have), they hang back a few minutes....BANG! that's how to play through.

Slow play is a problem, but getting too antsy about perceived slow play is also a problem. A while ago, I was playing by myself behind a slow foursome. They should have invited me to play through, but didn't; it wasn't a big deal to me, because I wasn't in a hurry. They took their time on a difficult par-3, so I had a wait of at least 10 minutes before I got to hit. I was fortunate to hit the green, but I wanted to take my time thinking about my putt, which I knew from past experience was difficult to read.

So I'm lining it up, and the group behind me, which had managed to catch up, started shouting at me! WTF? I putted out and went back to talk to them, and they said they were "concerned" about the time I was spending on my putt. I could still see the group in front of me on the next tee box; there's nowhere to go! I let the group behind me play through so that they'd stop shouting at me, but of course that meant I spent the rest of the round waiting on them for every shot. The shouting group couldn't even keep pace with the slow group I had been behind before, so the total amount of time they saved by passing me was zero.

So I'd say that the greatest etiquette breach is lack of awareness. Know what's going on ahead of you and behind you. Make things as comfortable as you can for the groups behind, but don't blame the group right in front of you for something they can't help. And for god's sake, don't shout at the group in front of you the first time you see them on the green.

I agree with you elindholm.

A couple of weeks ago, I was playing at Edgewood, one of the nicest public golf courses in the area, when a similar situation happened. I really struggled off the box on about the fourth hole, and the goup behind us had to wait for us before they could tee off. They yelled down the fairway, on a long par 4, "You're holding up the whole course!" Of course, we were waiting for the group in front of us on the next hole. I can only hope they realized how stupid they looked when they approached that tee box and we were just getting ready to tee off.

I don't know why, but a couple of weeks has now passed...and that situation STILL gets my goat. I wanted to scream profanities back down the fairway at them. By the looks of their game, they were probably low handicappers. By the looks of their behavior on the course, one would swear they had never played before.

I can guarantee one thing, though. If you shout down a fairway at me, your chances of me letting you play through just got eliminated. I'm going to slow my game down a notch and MAKE you wait.

Idiots.

I understand why slow play gets to people and it gest to me too but it is by no means the worst on the list in my book.

What would you rather have happen to you? Hit that amazing shot stick it 5 feet from the hole and walk up to see a giant week old crusty ball divot between your ball and the hole. Or is it worse to sit on a bench for a few min while the group in front of you finishes up the hole???

I would much rather see people respect the game and the course then rush through a round leaving a trail of destruction behind them. I know this is over the top but you get my point.

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