Help please.

Background:

I am in a league and on #9 after we all hit drives I was looking for a competing player's ball while his partner was up on the ruff sitting next to my Slazenger 4 as "his" ball, the farther one. After all that time I was looking for his partner's ball I figured he had identified that ball as his. I hit the wrong Slazenger (his Slazenger 2) next to the green. He hit the other ball discovered to be mine into the parking lot striking a truck and remaining in the parking lot. Two golfers in the parking lot heard it. We were both playing Slazenger. Our league includes both match and stroke play competition in the round.

I hit the Slazenger 2 he "indicated" was my Slazenger(4) I did not pick it up to identify it first. By his sitting next to the further one (my 4) and making no attempt to stop me. In fact, he proceeded to hit the wrong ball he had "identified" as his.

He didn't believe he hit it out into the parking lot so I got it from the lot and brought it back. He said "is that a Slazenger 2?" I said "no, a Slazenger 4" which I was hitting. When I got up to my ball it was a Slazenger 2 and we discovered we hit each other's ball.

I told him it's a 2-stroke penalty and he got mad and said "just give me a 10 on the hole" and left the course. He was saying I should have had to play my ball out of the parking lot and other ridiculous things. I took 2 strokes, replaced my ball next to the green with the correct ball and finished the hole. I know now the rule required me to take it back to the spot.

After I got into the clubhouse I was informed I was to have taken it back to the place from the mishit. I would have gone back out and done that but they(the league) were not going to require me to do that. I certainly would have though. I went home and looked up the rule and I was to have taken it back.

The next week I didn't bring up that since he didn't complete his round he could be disqualified. But three weeks later (yesterday) he just asked the league to disqualify me. He wasn't even my competitor that week. His partner was.

I require a ruling. Who can I ask?

My perception is that would only apply in match play anyway, not in the stroke play portion of this competition. My question is "is he allowed to not finish by saying 'just give me a 10' in a competition"?

He seems really dead-set on enforcing the rules weeks later but wouldn't read the rulebook when I got it from my car and presented it to him. I asked after he challenged me so viciously "are you afraid to look at the rulebook"? He said he already had read it.

I now just need an answer to close the matter. Am I disqualified for not knowing to take the ball back? I corrected my error as soon as I discovered it and took the 2-stroke penalty. I just need the rule interpreted. Wouldn't he be disqualified for BOTH match play and stroke play since he didn't finish his round? I don't care if I lost the match part of the competition because of that error. I just need him to shut up. I think he was just mad that I outdrove him.

I now have prominent red dots on my ball.

Thank you.

In MP, you loose the hole because you played first using your opponent's ball (rule 15-3a). In SP, you both get a 2 stroke penalty. You should have gone back to the original place and replay from there before leaving that hole. Since you did not, you should have been DQ'd. Not knowing a rule is no reason to not DQ.

It seems the committee did not want to DQ you. Rule 2-5 says the committee cannot DQ you now anymore if they already accepted your scorecard and ratified the results.

How was the match result published? Did they gave the match to you? If so => lucky!

jev wrote:

In MP, you loose the hole because you played first using your opponent's ball (rule 15-3a). In SP, you both get a 2 stroke penalty. You should have gone back to the original place and replay from there before leaving that hole. Since you did not, you should have been DQ'd. Not knowing a rule is no reason to not DQ. It seems the committee did not want to DQ you. Rule 2-5 says the committee cannot DQ you now anymore if they already accepted your scorecard and ratified the results. How was the match result published? Did they gave the match to you? If so => lucky!

that's correct. Once they accept the score there's nothing you or he can do. Just remember to have the rulebook with you. Honestly it's in his best interest to know the rules and know about rule 3-3: if there is a dispute as to a ruling you have the right to play two balls in accordance with each option and record both scores and sort it out later before the cards are signed.

Let this be a painful lesson though, that you should identify your ball before you hit, regardless of what another person thinks is THEIR ball. Make sure you announce your type, number and marking before the round and whenever you hit a provisional, etc. The weight of the ruling is on you to identify and to rectify.

jev wrote:

It seems the committee did not want to DQ you. Rule 2-5 says the committee cannot DQ you now anymore if they already accepted your scorecard and ratified the results. How was the match result published? Did they gave the match to you? If so => lucky!

Correct they accepted my scorecard and ratified the results. The match result isn't published, it is just recorded and handicaps changed as the result. We get points one each for Match and Stroke play. I think I got two that night but I certainly wasn't disqualified nor notified the next week that I was even under consideration for DQ. My handicap changed from 12.26 to 11.76.

Thanks.

P.S. Mine was the only rulebook at the table. I went out and got it as soon as I was accused.

Last edited by enviroman22 on Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

Here's my copy of the email to the "Commissioner".

Thank you very much for at least giving me a leg to stand on.

"Steve,

You owe me $10. Not only am I not disqualified in either match or stroke play, I CANNOT be disqualified now.

Will you pay when you lo$e is the question. You may not remember betting me that I am rightfully disqualified as of yesterday's date, the Monday league night. But you did and shook on $10. Everyone at the table saw you if you are not able to remember.

Not only was the score recorded and ratified to adjust my handicap indicating acceptance of the Committee of the final Match and Stroke play scores but I was never notified my opponent intended to make a claim. Subsection i says Gary can only make a claim if he tells me he is making a claim. He did not and went home. Will you pay when you lo$e is the question. Let's see if Gary will al$o. He made the $ame bet with me in front of everybody.

I told you I would find the rule that says he can't even bring it up now.

I will bring a copy of this rule to the next outing. It's in every rulebook under Rule 2-5 Doubt as to Procedure; Disputes and Claims."

I guess you and Steve won't be exchanging Christmas gifts this year...or ever!

Yeah...I learned a painful lesson about identifying my ball recently as well.

But it's only $10. Only concern I would have if I was you is making sure that your reputation remains intact. That can be taken on many different levels.

The way I look at it....if you find this guy isn't good for the $10, that $10 you lost is a pretty good investment.

This is not about how your opponent behaves (just let him shame himself), this is about how you feel the game should be played.

You had the rulebook ready, you even discussed the situation if I understand correctly before handing in the scorecard. Even though the committee may not have DQ'd you, in all honesty you should've DQ'd yourself at that point.

I would not claim the $10 in this case... I feel it's not in the spirit of the game.

jev wrote:

I would not claim the $10 in this case... I feel it's not in the spirit of the game.

Agreed. I might even pony up the $10 just to keep my reputation intact.

Are you guys serious? I already went out and celebrated last night "on them".

A little history here. Last year in a scramble I mentioned "Those guys on 18 took a practice putt before taking their team putts and that's illegal! They could be disqualified (DQ) for that." We all were standing there on the porch with a beer watching them. Well, a guy lashed into me and said "you people who bring up the rules all the time make people not want to play in fun leagues. He screamed "DON'T EVER BRING UP THE RULES AGAIN" at our "porch party" last year. I just shrugged and said "OK" and left. (I emphasized to that other player in this incident "I didn't bring this rule up!")

And so, now that someone else brings up the rules and wants to condemn me by using them and I am able to defend myself because I knew there was a rule about "time and procedure to file a claim" I should not collect my winnings?

I made the bet that I wasn't in fact going to be "now disqualified" as they can't even bring it up now three weeks later. You suggest I won the bet but should waive it even though Gary tried his best to get me retro-disqualified without ever telling me what my infraction was to allow me to correct it?

At the table when my scorecard was handed in originally DQ was not discussed nor known by me to be the correct ruling. It was only after I went home and looked up the rule that I discovered not only was I to take two penalty points but I was to have taken it back. The Committee only said "you should have taken it back and played it from there" but let the scores stand.

3 weeks later; Monday, Gary said he wants me disqualified because that's what the rule says and I got the rulebook out of my bag because none of the other 10 guys had one.

I will bow to the "roundtable majority" here, and will not take their money even though I $pent it already last night celebrating if that is the consensus.

I will conclude by saying the spirit of the game is much more important than my individual satisfaction if that is how this should play out.

DougE wrote:

I guess you and Steve won't be exchanging Christmas gifts this year...or ever!

ROFL

He and I get along well. I have a problem with his being my teammate and we had a "rainout" week this season that noone told me about and I went and nobody else showed up. I told him I should get a forfeit because it didn't rain during the time we would have played, noone called me, and I have history from asking him the very first year I was in the league what the rain policy is. He said "we always play. Even if it looks like it will rain at home out on the course it might look completely different. We always play." So I adopted that as my strategy. We did indeed get rained out one week when I called him and suggested he call off that week's match. He didn't and we quit after the first hole. That was a wasted trip. Then last year we played through rain but then lightning came. I played through the first bolt because they all said they are playing through it. But when the second hit I said "you guys do what you want, I'm going in the clubhouse". They wanted to deny me the finishing holes when I was ahead in the match. I first had to show the Commissioner in the Rules that I had a right to make that decision. I told them I had marked my ball with my opponent present and got permission the next week from the Course Superintendent to finish the last two holes from that spot. The Commissioner said "no, we'll just give each of you a point" instead of me getting two points. Our team lost first place by one point.

So, this year when I drive 45 minutes to the course and noone else did and my own teammate Steve, the Commissioner didn't call me I knew where I stood.

No, I think I'll take their $10 that they lost fair and square trying to hurt me and just not play in this league next year.

Last edited by enviroman22 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:21 pm; edited 5 times in total

Bryan Kautzman wrote:

The way I look at it....if you find this guy isn't good for the $10, that $10 you lost is a pretty good investment.

Brilliant!

For Gary in particular, the one who wanted me DQ'd!

Steve was reeeeeally drunk and that's why I said "If you don't remember". He is usually drunk but in this case definitely.

Lastly, thanks guys for "chipping" in. I feel a lot better no matter how this turns out.

enviroman22 wrote:

Are you guys serious?

Dead serious

Quote:

I already went out and celebrated last night "on them".

Good for you, sure hope you had a lot of fun doing so!

Golf is a bit strange, as I was pointed out during the very first Ryder Cup I had the pleasure to witness. When I cheered at the mistake of one of our opponents (resulting in the loss of the hole) I was firmly corrected by an otherwise very nice Irish chap: "one never cheers when winning because of the fault of ones opponent". And than he offered a large beer because of a lost bet . That attitude exactly sums up what I meant by "the spirit of the game": one only can graciously accept a prize when won fair and square.

Well put Jev my sentiments exactly.

What if they say they require $10 from me?

Editors note: I would like to delete this question on the grounds of stupidity but it's been responded to. I wrote late at night after a few brews. Thanks again all!