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Double-hit?

 
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player

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Double-hit?

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Yesterday I played at eagle creek which has deep pot bunkers. Well on the 8th hole my buddy found a pot bunker. His shot from the bunker hit the lip, bounced back and struck his club. Now if you hit the ball more than once, it counts as 2 strokes. Would this count as 2 strokes?
 
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Double-hit?

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player wrote:
Yesterday I played at eagle creek which has deep pot bunkers. Well on the 8th hole my buddy found a pot bunker. His shot from the bunker hit the lip, bounced back and struck his club. Now if you hit the ball more than once, it counts as 2 strokes. Would this count as 2 strokes?


14-4. Striking the Ball More Than Once

If a player's club strikes the ball more than once in the course of a stroke, the player must count the stroke and add a penalty stroke, making two strokes in all.
Dusty23
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject:

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Not sure of the rule, but by the way you describe it it, it sounds like the ball richocheted off the bunker lip and struck the club. there is a seperate rule about the ball rebounding back and hitting the player who struck it (2 Stroke penalty i think). Happened to a guy in the Masters a few years back. i think that the club would be considered an extension of the player in that instance. whereas if he hits it twice in the process of the stroke (see: T.C.Chen- US Open) then 14-4 applies
 
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject:

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Dusty23 wrote:
Not sure of the rule, but by the way you describe it it, it sounds like the ball richocheted off the bunker lip and struck the club. there is a seperate rule about the ball rebounding back and hitting the player who struck it (2 Stroke penalty i think). Happened to a guy in the Masters a few years back. i think that the club would be considered an extension of the player in that instance. whereas if he hits it twice in the process of the stroke (see: T.C.Chen- US Open) then 14-4 applies


19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
If a player's ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.

@Dusty23 - you raised a good point about whether hitting a ball twice with your club was treated the same way if the ball hit something other than the club or player in between the first and second contact. It looks like the result is the same, one stroke and one penalty stroke. I guess it makes sense as the circumstances are similar.
Dusty23
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject:

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hey BK, thanks for finding the specific rule, i knew there was one, just too lazy to look it up. I guess ultimately the real question is, which would you rather have happen to you ?. I have had a couple of double hits in my lifetime and felt like an idiot everytime and a buddy of mine (really, not me) hit one out of the rough and about a foot ahead of initial contact, ball and club came together again the ball went straight up in the air and landed behind him. i think i'd rather have my ball richochet and hit me.
DougE

Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 1108

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject:

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Last week I saw a guy hit from the rough, into the 150 yard marker which was about 5 yards in front of him. The ball ricocheted back and nearly hit him. (Thankfully, it missed his head, but not by much.) Had it hit him in the head, and he ultimately died, that would have really sucked. PENALTY: Death, plus a stroke.
 
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject:

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DougE wrote:
Last week I saw a guy hit from the rough, into the 150 yard marker which was about 5 yards in front of him. The ball ricocheted back and nearly hit him. (Thankfully, it missed his head, but not by much.) Had it hit him in the head, and he ultimately died, that would have really sucked. PENALTY: Death, plus a stroke.


Not to mention the penalty for undue delay.
 
player

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:56 pm    Post subject:

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bkuehn1952 wrote:
Dusty23 wrote:
Not sure of the rule, but by the way you describe it it, it sounds like the ball richocheted off the bunker lip and struck the club. there is a seperate rule about the ball rebounding back and hitting the player who struck it (2 Stroke penalty i think). Happened to a guy in the Masters a few years back. i think that the club would be considered an extension of the player in that instance. whereas if he hits it twice in the process of the stroke (see: T.C.Chen- US Open) then 14-4 applies


19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
If a player's ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.

@Dusty23 - you raised a good point about whether hitting a ball twice with your club was treated the same way if the ball hit something other than the club or player in between the first and second contact. It looks like the result is the same, one stroke and one penalty stroke. I guess it makes sense as the circumstances are similar.

So is it a 1 shot penalty or a 2 shot penalty, something similar happpened to Jeff Magert in the masters, but I think the shot hit the lip and hit him in the chest.
 
Bryan K

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject:

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It is a stroke plus a penalty stroke...and play the ball as it lies.

A couple of years ago, I was playing with a bloke who topped one of his shots so badly, it just kind of flubbed up in the air and hit him in the chin before rolling all the way down his body and landing at his feet as he was falling backwards out of the shock of hitting himself in the chin. My question as it relates to this one is, can he take stroke and distance (so he can tee it up again) instead of stroke plus penalty and lie?
 
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject:

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Bryan K wrote:
My question as it relates to this one is, can he take stroke and distance (so he can tee it up again) instead of stroke plus penalty and lie?


I believe one is always able to take a stroke and distance penalty by declaring the ball unplayable. The problem, of course, is he would be hitting "5" from the tee. Taking an "unplayable" doesn't negate all the mischief that proceeded that decision. At least that is this Rules Snob's opinion. Wink
 
Bryan K

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject:

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bkuehn1952 wrote:
I believe one is always able to take a stroke and distance penalty by declaring the ball unplayable. The problem, of course, is he would be hitting "5" from the tee. Taking an "unplayable" doesn't negate all the mischief that proceeded that decision. At least that is this Rules Snob's opinion. Wink


Yeah, that's what I was wondering. If he could negate all of the mischief that resulted from the shot by taking stroke and distance. But wouldn't he only be laying "3" from the tee if he counted the penalty stroke from the ball hitting his chin? The stroke is where he actually swung at the ball, and then you have the penalty for hitting himself. The third stroke would involve putting the ball back on the tee. I don't see a fourth stroke anywhere.

I suppose a similar occurance would be something that happened to me last summer. On the third hole of my local course, you have to cross a bridge to tee off which you have to come back across to continue on. Most people just leave their bags on the front side of the bridge, but as I found out painfully last summer, that leaves those bags in play for an errant hit from the previous hole. Now the group who left their bags out there swears that my ball didn't actually hit any of their equipment. They say my ball rolled underneath their push cart without hitting anything, and I took them at their word. However, what happened afterwards was that the ball rolled all the way down a hill and into a red staked area where it would have been impossible to drop without going closer to the hole. My only option was stroke and distance. I had no idea how to count this, so thankfully, the group in front of us gave us their word that I was in the clear for the penalty for hitting their equipment.

And for the record, I no longer leave my equipment on the other side of the bridge. At the very least, I will leave it on the bridge.
 
bkuehn1952

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject:

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Bryan K wrote:
bkuehn1952 wrote:
I believe one is always able to take a stroke and distance penalty by declaring the ball unplayable. The problem, of course, is he would be hitting "5" from the tee. Taking an "unplayable" doesn't negate all the mischief that proceeded that decision. At least that is this Rules Snob's opinion. Wink


But wouldn't he only be laying "3" from the tee if he counted the penalty stroke from the ball hitting his chin? The stroke is where he actually swung at the ball, and then you have the penalty for hitting himself. The third stroke would involve putting the ball back on the tee. I don't see a fourth stroke anywhere.

You are correct. He would be hitting "4" not "5". I guess I got so excited I threw in an extra stroke for good measure.
ebkruger

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject:

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"I had no idea how to count this, so thankfully, the group in front of us gave us their word that I was in the clear for the penalty for hitting their equipment."

There is no penalty for hitting an opponents or another groups equipment such as their bags.
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