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swing video then and now
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sharonlucky
Joined: 21 Dec 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject:

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so wonderful....
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject:

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OK, an update... a video from about a month ago.

Issues at work: the closed clubface. Also the head slide towards the target, but mostly it's the clubface. The head slide, I can adjust that easier with a smoother transition. the clubface and the feeling of a "shove" rather than a release down to impact I have been having trouble with.

http://youtu.be/YJG7mRZen_c
 
sepfeiff

Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject:

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Which club are you using? Are your clubs fitted or off the rack?

I think the clubface angle is due to your steep spine angles which in the case of the takeaway puts your hands up a bit high at the transition. You tend to dip your left shoulder in takeaway, and dip your right shoulder in downswing. When executing a golf swing with steep angles..it's hard to do anything but pull hook.

To see this clubface/spine angle relationship... Take the club back to parallel and pause. Now lean forward and increase your spine angle. Your left shoulder drops down and the clubface closes.

To practice keeping spine a little more stable - Lock every joint in your body (knees, elbows, wrists, etc) except your waist/hips. Start a slow 1/2 swing back only by rotating your shoulders and waist...no wrist or elbow action allowed! Imagine your spine extends down into the ground from your tailbone, and your only movement allowed is to rotate around it. If your clubface is square at address, then it will be square at parallel. Luke Donald is a master at this, check out this video.. his shoulders rotate around his spine very neatly.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw&feature=related[/u]
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject:

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Fitted by PING van. Those in the video are short irons, forget exactly but the down the line looks like 9 iron and face on maybe 7.

For what it's worth the shut face angle I've had for years, with any club including driver looks same way. At the top it's facing the sky, half back facing the ground. Same with my prior irons which were longer and less upright.

I think it's something to do with how I turn hips, shoulders, wrists etc. like you are getting at. It's been driving me mad as I can see and feel it not quite right but so hard to change.

My miss is a pull with some hook draw, or depending I think if I release the club face or not, a big ol push slice.

P.S. thanks for taking the time to offer input
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject:

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Just noticed something actually, when doing comparison. On down the line swing at the top (0:37) looking at the back of the grip, it's pointing well outside swing plane, where Luke (0:5Cool his is pointed more on the arc of the swing plane. I imagine if could turn my wrists more at this point so the club is on plane the face may turn more square... Basically, looks like the club is laid off.
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject:

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jfurr wrote:
Just noticed something actually, when doing comparison. On down the line swing at the top (0:37) looking at the back of the grip, it's pointing well outside swing plane, where Luke (0:58 ) his is pointed more on the arc of the swing plane. I imagine if could turn my wrists more at this point so the club is on plane the face may turn more square... Basically, looks like the club is laid off.


This seems to match the typical recording my swingbyte gizmo is capturing, the red line on top is the extension of the club from the grip end, going well outside the plane. The whole swing is somewhat tilted and laid off.

 
sepfeiff

Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject:

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I think that your wrists are looking good - I wouldn't change a thing there.

There are infinite ways to put your club into a good position at the top, but try a few to get a feel.

1. Take stance, lift club up in front of your body so left arm is parallel to ground without turning your shoulders. Tuck right elbow into body a bit. Now turn your shoulders on your spine axis to the transition and everything should be in a good position.

2. Rotate shoulders all the way back on your spine axis to transition without lifting the club at all. Now lift the club up to the proper transition position. This is a bit harder to do unless your spine is made of jelly.

3. In a well executed golf swing we do all gradually in sync.

What I notice is that you are lifting your arms in the takeaway faster than your shoulders are turning OR your shoulders just aren't turning enough. Your hands end up too high for the amount of shoulder turn you have. Your hands are "over the top" in this position and your downswing will be over the top. You mention this as the butt end of the club outside of plane. Cocking or turning your wrists to point the butt is going to make this worse.

The more shoulder turn you have, the higher you are able to raise your hands without going off plane. Bubba Watson is a good example... he has really high hands BUT a huge rotation with his shoulders.

In order for you to get back to on plane and hit a relatively solid shot, your hands will have to "outrace" your shoulders to impact. This is a common transition and downswing issue with 2 plane swings which you seem to favor. I am not saying that there aren't millions of golfers who have this swing but if you are looking to correct a few issues with the least amount of pain then increase your shoulder turn.. you'll get some more power and it will allow your hands to come down inside as needed.

My suggestion to add more shoulder turn is to add more hip turn which you should have more. Looking both at Bubba and Luke: Luke has a good hip turn, pretty standard for touring pro's but nothing like Bubba! You are probably at 25 or 30 degrees, Luke at 40-45 and Bubba is damn near twisting his hips out of his sockets around 60 degrees.

You at 0:37

Bubba at 0:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8Er2w3Gkk

Luke at 0:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject:

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OK here's a before and after of the club at the top. First, the swing from the video - laid off looking, off plane, etc. 2nd pic from yesterday. Trying to put more hip and shoulder turn and get the club shaft/grip back more on the plane. One thing I notice immediately is the wrists are more matched, like an "A" shape rather than the bowed and cupped look.



Looking a bit better, and had some nice ball flight. It feels odd though, going to take a lot of reps to get used to it. It doesn't look like a dramatic change in the hip and shoulder turn but it sure feels different.

thanks for helping me work this out.
 
sepfeiff

Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject:

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I think it looks worlds better for the hip turn. It's hard to believe your handicap is that high!

I've got an additional drill to get you in the right positions throughout the takeaway and into the transition and hopefully tweak your outside in downswing. You will need an alignment stick or a broken shaft, something that will stick in the ground easily.





1. If you have 2 sticks, create a target line with the first one on the ground (the target stick). If you only have one stick, use a 4 or 5 iron for the target line.

2. The second stick (the plane stick) will be stuck in the ground on the shaft angle of the club you are swinging 6 inches back from the end of the first stick. You can set the club squarely on the ground next to this one to get the angle right. In the above photos, the left side is too flat, the right side looks more like the shaft angle.

3. When she takes the club back, the hosel of the club will be just past the plane stick.

4. Place a tee in the ground where your ball position will be, nearly buried in the ground. You will need to move your feet forward or back on the target stick to get the tee in the correct spot to meet the #3 condition. The tee is only for a setup reference, don't try to hit it.

ok, so hopefully you have a similar setup of sticks as the gal in the shot above, now what to do?

There are a couple of things you want to start off with here
1. On the takeaway - The one difference I want you to employ versus pictures above is that the head of your club should be riding the plane nearly up to parallel. Picture left she is too low, picture right she is too high. I'd like to see you with the shaft riding an inch over that plane stick all the way up to parallel.

2. Quiet your takeaway.
Lock your entire upper body and only rotate your shoulders/hips. When you do this you may need to adjust to get the shaft to ride the plane stick, only adjust your spine angle to get the club to ride the plane stick. If done properly, your upper body will be rotating around your spine. The "Y" formed at address by your arms and the club should not break at all until just before the clubhead passes the plane stick. Like a pendulum you can go back and through with this short move a couple of thousand times, over and over until you take your wrists and elbows out of the first few feet of your swing. The key is to feel like you are rotating around your spine.

3. OK, now to the hinge and upward movement.
Only curl your right arm, elbow tucked into your side - keep that left arm straight and no lifting! Instead of lifting your hands with left arm, let your shoulder rotation and the curl of your right arm lift your hands into position. This always felt to me like my right arm was pulling my left arm across my chest.

4. Your now straight left arm a 90 degree wrist cock and your shoulder line should form a nice box on plane. This may feel like a restricted turn, but trust me it's not! You are now turning with the core muscles instead of hands, arms, wrists.

5. Start hitting the ball from the inside.
On the downswing this is where you are going to feel a great deal of difference. You need to come down inside of the plane stick. I don't recommend doing this at speed for some time until you are comfortable with the path. Hitting that plane stick at speed usually isn't good!

This is going to feel really strange, and very much inside where you are used to. I hope you will accept that it's putting your upper body and the club in a proper neutral position and give it a shot.

I've figured your swing at this point with my suggestions above probably most resembles Charl Schwartzel. Watch this one about a million times, just perfect!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcUHeELPNWo&feature=related
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject:

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sepfeiff wrote:
1. Keep your head in place.
When golfers move their upper bodies laterally, the bottom of their swing arc moves laterally along with it. You are swaying laterally 6 inches or more which equals fat or thin depending on your upper body timing. If your arms are faster than usual your body will not move forward laterally fast enough and thus a fat shot because the bottom of the swing arc is still behind the ball when your hands pass the ball...and vice-versa for thin shots.


Thanks again for taking the time to give me your input. I think you really nailed it on your first response regarding the head slide. This quote above is still a nagging issue and I seem to have slipped back into doing this more again. I'm going to try to find some drills to use to work on finding the correct feel and movement.
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject:

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Looking into this and comparing videos again. Very clear not rotating hip but sliding off the ball. Also my swing had slowed down to snails pace on the backswing compared to even a month ago. All out of sorts, but I think I know what to work on.

I plan to find a largeish mirror and work on practicing this hip turn a lot indoors.
jfurr

Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject:

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the December "hip swaying" video:

http://youtu.be/Kmfe71IURqk


I'll keep this up for a week or so, then will put up a follow up after I tweak some things.

thanks oobers, look forward to some constructive feedback
Duke of Hazards

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject:

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jfurr wrote:
the December "hip swaying" video:

http://youtu.be/Kmfe71IURqk


I'll keep this up for a week or so, then will put up a follow up after I tweak some things.

thanks oobers, look forward to some constructive feedback


I got nothing. My eye is not trained enough to notice anything specific. And my swing is too different from yours to use as a frame of reference. Keep working and tweaking, though. You'll figure it out.
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