I pulled my tee shot into a red staked forest/ravine on the left. On the other side of the forest is a clearing that is not part of the hazard. However, it's not just jail back there. It's solitary confinement on Death Row. Usually, you have to play a shot to the opening before you can actually shoot back at the fairway.

We did not know if my ball went through the red staked hazard or not. I declared, on the tee, that I was taking a stroke and distance penalty, and then proceeded to hit one of my most amazing drives ever. Question number one is, am I correct that I had the option to take a stroke-and-distance penalty here?

We ended up finding my ball in the clearing on the other side of the red staked hazard, and it was in a nightmare situation. It was about five feet behind a shed. An argument then began. One guy said I was allowed to take relief from the shed. My contention was that no relief was allowed since the shed did not interfere with my swing path. THere was no way to hit over or around the shed. The only play was to play about twenty feet to the right. Was I correct in asserting that no relief was allowed here?

Finally, if I was correct in every assertion here, stroke and distance probably saved me some strokes. I would have had to take a stroke from behind the shed. I would have had to take another stroke to get close to the opening that goes back out to the fairway. And I would have had to take another stroke to get to the fairway. And after all of that, I still would have been at least 75 yards behind where my second tee shot ended up.

In my understanding of the rules, you were correct and must play your 2nd tee shot (3). You did not say "provisional" you said "Stroke and distance penalty" conceding that you were abandoning your first ball and playing a 2nd ball from the tee. Had you played your first ball it would have been a rules violation.

I'm sure Rulesman will chime in on this one though.

I thought that you always have the option of taking stroke and distance penalty. Also once you declared the penalty and re-hit, isn't the first ball dead and no longer in play? It doesn't matter that you found it.

About the shed, you should check for a local rule. Otherwise there's probably no line of sight relief since it's a permanent fixture. Quite frankly it doesn't sound like that shot deserved any free relief anyways.

legitimatebeef wrote:

Quite frankly it doesn't sound like that shot deserved any free relief anyways.

Ouch... callin' it like he sees it.

For what it is worth ($.02), I agree with birdieXris and beef. Hitting a second tee shot without stating something like: "I am hitting a provisional", makes your first ball out of play.

You are correct that the building was an immovable obstruction and your only relief was for stance and swing. However, since you did not declare your 2nd ball a provisional, you should not have had to worry about that issue.

legitimatebeef wrote:

I thought that you always have the option of taking stroke and distance penalty. Also once you declared the penalty and re-hit, isn't the first ball dead and no longer in play? It doesn't matter that you found it. About the shed, you should check for a local rule. Otherwise there's probably no line of sight relief since it's a permanent fixture. Quite frankly it doesn't sound like that shot deserved any free relief anyways.

It's the truth! I mean, my driver has been my one constant this year. I've lost a lot of distance on it due to the fact that I've really slowed down my swing while losing about 20 pounds (so far). My result is 230 to 250 every time in the middle of the fairway. And then I haul off and whomp this one on the one hole where you really, really need a good drive. Blah.

bkuehn1952 wrote:

For what it is worth ($.02), I agree with birdieXris and beef. Hitting a second tee shot without stating something like: "I am hitting a provisional", makes your first ball out of play. You are correct that the building was an immovable obstruction and your only relief was for stance and swing. However, since you did not declare your 2nd ball a provisional, you should not have had to worry about that issue.

I was playing with one of those blokes who not only doesn't follow the rules but expects everyone else to not follow them as well. He kept on giving me excuses why I should play that first ball, so I was trying to come up with a secondary reason beyond the fact that I openly declared "stroke and distance" before hitting my second shot. I was trying to get him to realize that I was saving a stroke (possibly two) by using stroke and distance instead of trying to hit out of that mess.

You just stated "distance & penalty", not the reason why (which is not necessary). Since there are more situations where D&P are possible for, you could've hit it for an unplayable ball as well. I'ld say you played according to the rules.

Bryan K wrote:

I was playing with one of those blokes who not only doesn't follow the rules but expects everyone else to not follow them as well.

Reminds me of those people who say after someone misses a very short putt--"I woulda given you that" or worse "It's OK, I gave ya that one".

Just to confirm.
The second ball played without the words 'provisional ball' in now the ball in play lying 3. The first is just a stray ball and if played is a 'wrong' ball.
There is no line of sight relief for the shed unless it has been declared a 'Temporary Immovable Obstruction'. Which is very unlikely and probably wrong.

Rulesman wrote:

Just to confirm. The second ball played without the words 'provisional ball' in now the ball in play lying 3. The first is just a stray ball and if played is a 'wrong' ball. There is no line of site relief for the shed unless it has been declared a 'Temporary Immovable Obstruction'. Which is very unlikely and probably wrong.

It's definitely a permanent structure. I think it's a maintenance shed, but it's made of bricks with two jiffy johns out back that are enclosed by a fence.

Bryan K wrote:

Rulesman wrote: Just to confirm. The second ball played without the words 'provisional ball' in now the ball in play lying 3. The first is just a stray ball and if played is a 'wrong' ball. There is no line of site relief for the shed unless it has been declared a 'Temporary Immovable Obstruction'. Which is very unlikely and probably wrong. It's definitely a permanent structure. I think it's a maintenance shed, but it's made of bricks with two jiffy johns out back that are enclosed by a fence.

In that case it is an Immovable Obstruction. No line of sight/play relief.
If it has been declared an Integral Part of the Course, then no relief at all.